Wednesday, February 02, 2005

The Kalash

Image Hosted by ImageShack.usI’ve been reading about the fascinating Kalash tribe in the Hindu-Kush area of Northern Pakistan. Their background and history further intensified my desire to travel through Central Asia, all the –istans in particular. For the most part, the history of the Kalash people remains obscure and controversial. According to some scholars, the Kalash people are direct descendants of Alexander the Great’s soldiers. This view however is unsubstantiated and most scholars trace the history of the Kalash back to the Indo-Aryan migration/invasion in 1500 B.C. No matter where they came from and when they settled in the mountain villages of the Hindu-Kush, the light skin, blonde hair, and blue eyes of many Kalash people provide an interesting evidence to their Caucasian origins.

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

The Kalash are among the few remaining non-Muslim people in Central Asia. Having been isolated for centuries in the Hindu Kush mountain ranges, the Kalash people have become genetically distinct. The centuries and centuries of isolation also allowed them to maintain their pagan beleifs and preserve their culture from outside influence. In Afghanistan, they used to occupy a region called Kafirstan (land of the infidels) but in 1895 they were conquered and forcibly converted to Islam by Amir AbdulRahman Khan and since then the region became known as Nuristan (land of the enlightened)! Today, there are approximately 3,000 Kalash people living in Northern Pakistan. Their culture and traditional way of life is under threat from urbanization, industrial development, and tourism, in addition, being surrounded by millions of Muslims from every direction does not help. Although violence is no longer used against them, the Kalash people continue to face racism and are under constant pressure to assimilate to the Muslim/Pakistani culture. Many Kalash people, especially men are converting to Islam only to leave their tribe in search for better economic opportunities in other regions of Pakistan.

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us It's quite interesting to browse through pictures of the Kalash tribe. They have such a beautiful culture. Kalash women wear black gowns adorned with a dozen of yellow, red, and orange necklaces. They also wear a beautiful headgear covered with beads and other colorful stuff. Men wear the standard shalwar qameez but they distinguish themselves from Muslims by putting a feather in their woolen caps.

One day, if I.. or hopefully when I embark on that trip of a lifetime through central asia (the silk road perhaps?) I'll make sure to include the Hindu-Kush valleys in my route.

For more photos and info about the Kalash, check out the following websites:

-The Kalash, the last descendants of Alexander the Great
-Abi Gul (beautiful girl)
-Picture of a beautiful kalash girl
-Images from Chitral: 1973-76
-Kalash Indigenous Survival Program
-Pakistan: De Paris a Auckland sans avion
-Kalash: A dieing culture
-Children of the Kalash Valleys
-Kalash Valley: Where fairies dance and sing
-Kalash Festival of Choimus

67 Comments:

At 5:20 PM, Blogger Chanad said...

Yeah the people of the Kalash valley are really interesting. They speak their own language and seem quite out of place when compared with the rest of Pakistan. Although the theory that they are related to Alexander the Great is unsubstantiated, their clothes really do resemble some of the traditional clothes worn in rural Greece.

Anyways, nice post!

 
At 10:54 PM, Blogger global soul said...

Yeah, the Kalash are an interesting bunch of people. While researching about them I came across all sorts of theories about their origin, the most common was about them being descendants of Alexander the Great’s armies and many scholars find the numerous Greek elements in their culture, as you point out, a compelling evidence to support that theory. On the other hand, I came across a couple of genetic studies contending that although it’s exotic to think of the Kalash as descendents of Alexander the Great, the truth is that the Kalash are genetically distinct from the Greeks and they represent a genetic pool of ancestral Eurasian populations or even earlier Indo-European nomadic tribes that settled in the Hindu Kush valleys way before Alexander’s invasion. Regardless of their origin, I guess it is inevitable that the Kalash have been influenced by the ancient Greeks who ruled the region for centuries.

 
At 11:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

yeah, the people of the Kalash valley are very interesting. They are descendents of armies of Alexander the Great who was Macedonian, and of surrounding indian, asian and nomadic tribes respectively. I don't want to take the light away from the Kalash people, it's phenomonal the way they have evolved due to their isolated location, and the vast contrast their culture has to that of most of Pakistan. but one must consider what I have to say. It is clear that Alexander the Great was Macedonian. His father was Phillip ... the undenied king of Macedonia. but his mother is a myth, a supposed Greek goddess "olympus" (pigs fly too)... okay lets say maybe his mother was Greek, she had no maternal authority over him at that time of paternal domination in society. There is no way that Alexander the Great can be considered Greek, he was the son of the Macedonian King... hence clearly he is part of the Macedonian royal family. When you consider the time and the paternal authority at his time, there is no doubt what nationality Alexander is. We're talking about 300 BC, where a man was the ultimate God of the household and held soul unarguable dominance over the household. Macedonians also still reside in Northern Greece and are under opression, the situation can be parallelled to that of Aboriginis in Australia. The main concern now is the well being of the Kalash people and the continuance of their own culture, which is definately not Greek, not Macedonian, not Pakistani, not Indo., or Asian.... But unique in itself. Greeks should not try to enforce their culture among the Kalash people which they have been doing, but should leave the people at peace and let their unique culture be preserved. I want to stipulate that it is imperitive that the truth be told and that we be historically accurate and politically accurate in the comments which we make. Aristotle a supposed Greek (there is no evidence to prove he was Greek) supposedly invented "logic", just apply it and the political ambiguities u have will be clear. paternal domination.....of a undenied KING(solid evidence (strictly non-mythical)).

 
At 12:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Alexander the Great was in fact, Greek. The country "Macedonia" actually sparked an outrage in Greece when it changed its name to "Macedonia", since this was, and is, the exact name of the most northern Greek state, "Makedonia". Alexander the Great was prince of this region known as "Makedonia". This is the exact reason for the continual political tensions between the supposed "Macedonian" Former Republic of Yugoslavia and Greece.

 
At 4:14 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

As you know, Alexander the Grate was not a Greek. He was just an Albanian. Albanians at dhat time were callet Illiryans, and Masedonians were just one of so called, tribes of Illyrian people.
The Hunza people are descendants of about 6000 Illyria (Albanian) solders who were dividet from dhe Illyrian army whiq was led from dhe Alexandre dhe Grate, because off dhe conflict between Alexandre and Kliti, which result with the killing of Kliti, and then dhose who were angry about that walket away from the army.
So if you want to now about those people, I sugest You to compare their language with dhe Albanian language, because there is no ather explonation.

 
At 5:02 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Alexander the Great was Greek as I am Macedonian and I am Greek. In Greek "Macedon" means tall man what does Macedonia means in Albanian or in FYROM Slavomacedon or if I say correctly in Bulgarian and Albanian because these are the two languages spoken in FYROM or should I say "Macedonia" of Yugoslavia, where Greek people also live but they are persecuted by those slavs who invated in their land and the land of their ancestor Alaxander the Great and took his history because they don' t have one. What does Skopjie means in any other language in the world than Greek? It means station, camp. What does "Alexander" means in Slavomacedonian or in Bulgarian or in Albanian? In Greek, both Ancient and Modern means "the one who repulse the men" Alex=repulse ander=(andras in Modern Greek)=man. In Ancient Greek there was also the kingdom of Fthia where Achilleas was king maybe he wasn' t Greek but only Fthian or maybe Pericles wasn' t Greek but only Athenian or maybe Leonidas who sacrificed himself for Greece in Thermopyles wasn' t Greek but Spartan only. As myself I am Greek but Macedonian because I was born in Macedonia (the part not conquerred by the Slavs) Alexander the Great was Greek and Macedonian as Rousvelt was American but also a New-Yorker. And study a little bit of history or at least Herodotus where he describe the passing of Alexander the first king of Macedonia to the camp of the Greeks to speak to the kings of Sparta and the general of Athens and inform them on whether the Persian army will attack or not because the omens for them were bad. And as he was a prisoner of Persians he should return but before leaving he told them: I am Greek from a very old generation of Greeks and I do not want to see Greece fallen under a barbarian rule. Alexander the Great, his grandson when he made the invasion in Asia his reason was to liberate the greek cities of Asia Minor from the Persian rule. Why should he if he wasn' t GREEKKKKKKKKKKKKK. As for the Albanians they came in Europe with the Turks and that is the reason why they two fought side to side in many battles against Greece,or against Armenians Georgians and other ingineous people in the regions that they conquerred. They are in no way descendants of the Illyrians, which waS A gREEK TRIBE because they would be christianized and not muslim as they are because the muslim invasion in the Balkans started at the time of the turk invasion from the steps of Chinese Turkestan till the shores of Greece. As for the Modern Greeks and their relation to Kalash there are strong indications that they are Greeks as the modern Greeks would be blond and fair if they wasn' t raped from the Turks, people of asiatic origin who leaved their black eyes in modern Greeks

 
At 8:59 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Very interesting what everyone has had to say on this controversial topic!

It is said that the Kalash people are Greek descendants... In fact the Greek government tells the Kalash people that they are Greek; and to embrace thier Greek origince, in return for financial aid that is sent to them. Because they are a minority, and therefore greatly segregated from the majority, they have no choice but to accept the money the Greek government offers. A prominant teacher in the community has even said along the lines of "if you give us money and say we we are greek, then we are greek".

The Kalash people are descendants of Aleksandar the Great, the Macedonian ruler, but it is not talked about in public arenas. DNA testing has been conducted between the Kalash people and Greeks and not one single match of similar DNA has eventuated!! (I bet DNA testing has been attempted between Macedonians and Kalash peoples [in an effort to put an end to the dispute] but nothing has been spoken nor written about) It is just a political weapon used by the Greeks to claim ownership that Aleksandar the Great is Greek.

Also, why do the Kalash people have outstanding and amazing BIG BLUE EYES if they are Greek??

And, if you beleive Aleksandar the Great is Greek, why isn't the simple name of 'Aleksandar' used as a Greek name, rather versions of 'Alexi'? (or whatever they are)

I don't see 'Alexi the Great' anywhere? It was just a thought i had, hope somebody could fill me in!

 
At 2:59 PM, Blogger lulu said...

Okay here isthe thing, my grandma is fromkalash, from the birir valley. Alexander was Macedonian but greeks and macedonians are sometimes considered the same since they speak the same language.

My grandmother considers herself from macedonian descent and even learned to speak greek when she first came to Ameriica, she can fit in with the Greeks and the culture because she considers it her culture. We all associate ourselves with the Greek culture and take pride in it!

However this is my theory, i believe that the people of Kalash are dominantly of macedonian descent,i also believe they might have some other origins in them. for example persian or turkish. Anyway i just thought i would leave these comments since i came across this wonderful site! Thanks.

 
At 12:30 AM, Blogger pelasgian said...

Ah the Kalash,

There is still a tribe in north Albania called Kalash. Kala in Alb means castle.

It is true that some soldier veterans of Alexander the great decided to remain in that part of the world. They married local girls and their descendands are the Kalash tribe. There are some other tribes that also descend from Alexanders soldiers, like Burusho.

I found it so interesting when I listened to the story of Alexander told by the Kalash member. He was talking about Iskander Azem (Alexander the Great).

Albanian National hero is also called Iskander (Skender-beg)

But, what really striked me was the god the Kalash believe. That is di ZAU. Basically ZA is a north albanian for ZE=voice from which ZE+greek particle US becomes ZEUS. Instead of ZEUS, the Kalash believe in his brother ZAU, again the northen albanian for SOUND.

I looked at the Kalash dictionary and found few words that are instantly recognized by albanians.

KALASH-ENGLISH-ALBANIAN

TAT-Father-AT
NAN-Mother-NANA
THUL-Fat-TUL
TU-You-TI
UGH-Water-UJE
WAKHT-A time-VAKT
TAZA-Fresh-TAZE
TAN-One's own-TEND(south)TAN(north)
TABUT-Coffin-TABUTI
PI-Drink-PI,
KUY-Where-KU
DUKAN-Shop-DYQAN


And lastly here what one of the English scholars wrote. Of course he wrote a lot more about this subject, but I will note here only one line.

WADHAM PEACOCK


"The men who marched to Babylon , Persia and India were the ancestors of the Albanians"

 
At 8:39 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Alexander's name in Greek is ALEXANDROS ("Alex" = Defender, "Andron" = Man). Not Aleksandar, or Alexandre, nor Iskander Azem, or any other Albanised or Slavicised name. He was always called by his Greek name ALEXANDROS, and he is still called this by the Greeks.

Though the debate is raging, most of the scarce linguistic evidence suggests that the Macedonians were Greek. All inscriptions found on artifacts from the region of Macedonia are in Greek. Most of the population - royalty, nobility and commoners alike - had Greek names. Granted, there was some Illyrian and Thracian influence because of the location of Macedonia, but not enough to define the kingdom as such.

The modern "Macedonians" are Bulgarians and Slavs who moved into part of the region of Macedonia circa 600-700 AD and still speak their Slavic language, which they've decided to call "Macedonian". They have no connection to the Macedonians of antiquity.

As for Alexander and his Macedonians being Albanian? Albanian nationalists, with the help of their "scholars", have laid claim to the cultures of most of south-eastern Europe - Pelasgians, Illyrians, Thracians, Greeks, etc. etc. Can't wait to see who's next...

Whether the Kalash are eventually proven to be of Greek/Macedonian or any other ethnic/cultural background, it is a shame to see such a rare culture being systematically erased.

 
At 8:25 PM, Blogger mkont said...

The ancient Macedonians are the fathers of the modern Slav-speaking Macedonians:


Chalas = mud (ancient Macedonian)
Kal = mud


Connected is the word "Kalesh" which means "Dark-skinned" in modern Macedonian and is also the name of the people who claim descendancy from Alexander´s army, the "Kalash" tribe in Pakistan



note: i believe 'kalash' means the same thing in their own language):

Here's a genetic report showing the closest genetic neighbors to the Kalash are the Yugoslavians (of which Macedonia was a part until 1991, and who also speak the same language as Macedonian, ie Sebian, Croatian, Slovenian etc are related to modern Macedonian). Not only that, but other Slavic contries are also close, virtually clinching this argument (Note - i don't believe the link works, but the report can be found at archive.org, or should at least be in a genetic journal)


HUMAN RACES CALCULATOR
[Home Page] [Calculator Menu] [Guestbook]
Y-Chromosome Haplogroup Frequency in Selected 69 Eurasian Populations

View Profile
Select Population:

Pakistani Kalash CHART
Population hg1 hg2 hg3 hg4 hg7 hg8 hg9 hg10 hg12 hg13 hg16 hg21 hg22 hg26 hg28
Pakistani Kalash 10 39 19 0 0 0 10 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 25

DISTANCE FROM Pakistani Kalash
Population Distance
1 Yugoslavian 30
2 Indian Uttar Pradesh Rajputs 30
3 Bulgarian 32
4 Northern Swedish 32
5 Ukranian 33
6 Indian Uttar Pradesh Brahmins 33
7 Romanian 33
8 Georgian 34
9 Belarusian 35
10 Norwegian 35
11 Gotlander 35
12 Slovenian 36
13 Pakistani Makrani Negroid 36
14 Pakistani Pathan 37
15 Indian Uttar Pradesh Chamars 37
16 Armenian 38
17 Hungarian 39
18 Chuvash 39
19 Pakistani Burusho 40
20 Czech 40
21 Pakistani Baluch 42
22 Turkish 42
23 Dutch 43
24 Pakistani Balti 43
25 Pakistani Brahui 44
26 Sardinian 45
27 Muslim Kurds 45
28 Icelandic 46
29 Slovakian 46
30 Pakistani Makrani Baluch 46
31 Greek 46
32 German 46
33 Pakistani Sindhi 47
34 Russian 47
35 Bavarian 49
36 Danish 49
37 Cypriot 50
38 Polish 50
39 Pakistani Parsi 51
40 Saami 51
41 French 52
42 Sephardic Jews 52
43 Estonian 53
44 Kurdish Jews 54
45 East Anglian 55
46 Latvian 55
47 Italian 55
48 Ossetian 58
49 Ashkenazi Jews 58
50 Mari 58
51 Lithuanian 62
52 Indian Uttar Pradesh Muslims 63
53 Pakistani Kashmiri 63
54 Southern Portuguese 63
55 Belgian 63
56 Northern Portuguese 66
57 Palestinian Arabs 67
58 Finnish 70
59 Spanish 71
60 Western Scottish 72
61 Bedouin 74
62 Pakistani Hazara 76
63 Algerian 77
64 Basque 80
65 Scottish 80
66 Irish 82
67 Cornish 82
68 Northern African 91

Source: ´Y-Chromosomal Diversity in Europe Is Clinal and Influenced Primarily by Geography, Rather than by Language.´ Table 1.
Rosser et al. Am. J. Hum. Genet. 67:1526–1543, 2000

[link]
web/20021104200524/
www25.brinkster.com/humanraces/calc/haplo_profiles.asp?d bname=ychroms&popid=59

 
At 12:55 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Alexander the Great was not Greek.He was born in Pella(today Greece).Before the Balcan wars Pella(Aegean Macedonia) was a part of Macedonia wich is a different contry, with it's own nation(Macedonians)and language, North of Greece. Alexander was the son of Philip the second who united the Macedonian tribes and seperated Macedonia from Greece. His dream was the Greeks to kneel in front of the Macedonians, wich he did by concurring many Greek towns and makeing them colonies of Macedonia.

 
At 7:50 PM, Anonymous mkont said...

Yugoslavians closest genetically to Kalash

The ancient Macedonians are the fathers of the modern Slav-speaking Macedonians:
Chalas = mud (ancient Macedonian)Kal = mud
Connected is the word "Kalesh" which means "Dark-skinned" in modern Macedonian and is also the name of the people who claim descendancy from Alexander´s army, the "Kalash" tribe in Pakistan

note: i believe 'kalash' means the same thing in their own language):
Here's a genetic report showing the closest genetic neighbors to the Kalash are the Yugoslavians (of which Macedonia was a part until 1991, and who also speak the same language as Macedonian, ie Sebian, Croatian, Slovenian etc are related to modern Macedonian). Not only that, but other Slavic contries are also close, virtually clinching this argument (Note - i don't believe the link works, but the report can be found at archive.org, or should at least be in a genetic journal)



HUMAN RACES CALCULATOR[Home Page] [Calculator Menu] [Guestbook]Y-Chromosome Haplogroup Frequency in Selected 69 Eurasian Populations
View ProfileSelect Population:



Pakistani Kalash CHARTPopulation hg1 hg2 hg3 hg4 hg7 hg8 hg9 hg10 hg12 hg13 hg16 hg21 hg22 hg26 hg28Pakistani Kalash 10 39 19 0 0 0 10 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 25



DISTANCE FROM Pakistani KalashPopulation Distance


1 Yugoslavian 30 2 Indian Uttar Pradesh Rajputs 30 3 Bulgarian 32 4 Northern Swedish 32 5 Ukranian 33 6 Indian Uttar Pradesh Brahmins 33 7 Romanian 33 8 Georgian 34 9 Belarusian 35 10 Norwegian 35 11 Gotlander 35 12 Slovenian 36 13 Pakistani Makrani Negroid 36 14 Pakistani Pathan 37 15 Indian Uttar Pradesh Chamars 37 16 Armenian 38 17 Hungarian 39 18 Chuvash 39 19 Pakistani Burusho 40 20 Czech 40 21 Pakistani Baluch 42 22 Turkish 42 23 Dutch 43 24 Pakistani Balti 43 25 Pakistani Brahui 44 26 Sardinian 45 27 Muslim Kurds 45 28 Icelandic 46 29 Slovakian 46 30 Pakistani Makrani Baluch 46 31 Greek 46 32 German 46 33 Pakistani Sindhi 47 34 Russian 47 35 Bavarian 49 36 Danish 49 37 Cypriot 50 38 Polish 50 39 Pakistani Parsi 51 40 Saami 51 41 French 52 42 Sephardic Jews 52 43 Estonian 53 44 Kurdish Jews 54 45 East Anglian 55 46 Latvian 55 47 Italian 55 48 Ossetian 58 49 Ashkenazi Jews 58 50 Mari 58 51 Lithuanian 62 52 Indian Uttar Pradesh Muslims 63 53 Pakistani Kashmiri 63 54 Southern Portuguese 63 55 Belgian 63 56 Northern Portuguese 66 57 Palestinian Arabs 67 58 Finnish 70 59 Spanish 71 60 Western Scottish 72 61 Bedouin 74 62 Pakistani Hazara 76 63 Algerian 77 64 Basque 80 65 Scottish 80 66 Irish 82 67 Cornish 82 68 Northern African 91
Source: ´Y-Chromosomal Diversity in Europe Is Clinal and Influenced Primarily by Geography, Rather than by Language.´ Table 1.Rosser et al. Am. J. Hum. Genet. 67:1526–1543, 2000
[link] web/20021104200524/www25.brinkster
com/humanraces/calc/haplo_profiles
asp?d bname=ychroms&popid=59

 
At 8:31 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This about The Kalash was very interested and you've got very nice photos.Also, I want to invite you here in my countri Macedonia.Maybe you are counfused from all these comments , but Macedonia is not Greece.Maybe Greece today is much more powerfull than Macedonia, but they are affraid of us ,because we've got the history.North Greece is full with Masedonian people,but they do not have right to speak or write on Macedonian,also their names are changed.You decide ,who is Aleksandar the Great or known as Aleksandar the Macedonian.I have to say that our flag is with red and yellow coulor.
I wish you all the best in your discoveru.

 
At 9:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

First off all Alexander and Macedonia was and will always be Greek. Get over it. Once again who still speaks the Greek language of Alexander the Great? Oh yeah GREEKS!! You Slavs or should I call you by your real name, Bulgarians, are confused on what your identity is. Oh BTW, I see our neighbors to the north still continue to spread their lies...that link regarding genetic "closeness" of the Kalash to you Skopiani does not even work. BUT recent analysis of the y-chromosome shows based upon haplogroup frequencies, 65-88% Greek admixture was estimated for the Kalash, consistent with a Greek origin for a significant proportion of Kalash Y chomosomes. ;p

 
At 3:17 PM, Anonymous a pakistani said...

Stop arguing for goodness sake! We all descended from Adam and Eve anyway so were all brothers/sisters regardless!!

Anyway, the Kalash people are amazing. Gotta go visit it some day but would that be to the detriment of these fascinating people? sigh. Anyway my hometown is only a few hundred miles from chitral, so ill be seeing my Pakistani cousins soon I hope!!

btw to the guy who posted the words.. lol, a few there were the same as urdu.. like taza=fresh, duqan=shop, waqt=time etc etc

 
At 2:50 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There's nothing Greek about blonde hair and blue eyes. Greek people are usually dark haired, brown eyed with classic European features. Those Kalash people look like Slavs - blonde with flattish, angular features.

Caucasian doesn't mean blonde. Get it right for once.

 
At 9:44 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ok pelasgian you were talking about kalash words, like tu- meaning -you being similar toKALASH-ENGLISH-ALBANIAN

TAT-Father-AT
NAN-Mother-NANA
THUL-Fat-TUL
TU-You-TI
UGH-Water-UJE
WAKHT-A time-VAKT
TAZA-Fresh-TAZE
TAN-One's own-TEND(south)TAN(north)
TABUT-Coffin-TABUTI
PI-Drink-PI,
KUY-Where-KU
DUKAN-Shop-DYQAN

i would just like to say one thing i am a mirpur kashmiri from azad kashmir, we speak mirpuri/pahari and most of the above words are in our language yet we do not claim albanian ancestory we are kashmiri asains ok, so our language is indo-european there are some similarietes but that doesn't mean we are european ok, so Kalash are asian they even say that (the greek stuff is legend ok, because i have many cousins who are blue/green eyed my neice is very fair and has blonde hair, my fathers name is iSakandar ) but we r asian ok ! and so are the kalash leave them alone now greeks r giving them money ad telling them to say they r greek for money they will but some complain!

 
At 11:03 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

THE KALASH are anciant albanians,since alexander was the princ of nothern greece,todays albania,and todays macedonians are slavs,and (hunza baltit fort)in albanian means,the small nose of the hard low land,and they look more like albanians than greeks

 
At 11:14 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

it makes more sense since alexander the great hated greeks,his mother was illyrian,and all of nothern greece was albanian up to 19 hundreds,todays so called macedonians are slavs,albanians are the only ones that speak an anciant language

 
At 12:50 PM, Blogger usman pakistan said...

It looks to me funny that people are thinking that kalash are greek or macedonian or albanian.
they are neither or these nationalities. The myth of some greek soldiers residing with kalash people is a flawed one. The genetic studies have proven that all the populations of pakistan are 95 percent same paternally and that include Kalash too who carry 25 percent R2 genes, a typical local gene of pakistan and the adjoining countries.
Also their language has nothing to do with the languages of greek , macedonian or albanian. Kalash people speak kalasha language that is just a dardic language of indo-aryan branch of languages spoken in pakistan. Dardic languages are spoken in the whole region of northern pakistan and kashmir. Their distinct culture is because of their centuries long isolation from the mainstream populations of northern pakistan who did not need them.
Kalash are as pakistani as anyone from pakistan. I do not know why greeks are taking so much interest in few thousand peoples who are genetically as different from them as any other population of the world.

 
At 12:33 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

what if albanians comes from kallash? In Roman Imperium evryone were moved.

 
At 1:37 AM, Anonymous SKUPI said...

IN ALBANIAN LANGUAGE( MACEDONIA) MA KE DHON-IJA MEANS GIVEN TO ME

 
At 3:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Actually I am a Macedonian and we are Greeks. The bulgarians of ochrid (now the ones that call themselves "Macedonians" even if they actually speak a mix of bulgarian and serbian) during the balkan wars were killing by thousands the real Macedonians (Greek Macedonians). More for the genetics of Kalash can be found here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalash#Genetics

Their mix with Greeks is from 20% to 40%, so they are more a mix of locals and less Greek Macedonians, though their culture and is close to Ancient Greek. The hats that the men are wearing are the same as one of the many that Ancient Greeks were using and the women clothes are associated to the Sarakatsanic women clothes that are still used by the Sarakatsanian people (Northern Greek Macedonians). To the albanian: you are a joke, the ancient Macedonians and Epirots had the Illyrians for slaves, and they were not parts of the Illyrians. The mother of Alexander the Great was Olympia (just search Wikipedia if you know what this is) and she was a princess of Epirus. There are not albanian or bulgarian before the time of the middle ages when the first slavic tribes arrived. Go learn some history from unbiased sources, like western countries universities. The word Makedon means "the one who is tall" and this word comes from the root "mak-" of the Dorian Dialect. This word is first mentioned by Homer in Odyssey. As for what the albanian said about "GIVEN TO ME", this is not a name for a country (not to mention that the original name doesn't sound the way it is read in English)

Some kingdoms that bulgarians of ochrid and albanians try to claim (even if they have no connection)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Bactrian_Kingdom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Greek_Kingdom

 
At 3:39 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

what about the kalash people? anyone can say anything about them without invoking Albania, Mecedonia or Greece? YOU HOOLIGAN, NEANDERTHAL, IDIOTS

 
At 12:14 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

slav-macedonians should accept the fact that they came to the region in 7th century BC. How can they pretend they are descendants of Alexander the Great when they speak Slavic which has no relation to old-Macedonian? The Macedonians were distinct as a kingdom and people from Greeks but having lived only for a short period of time and being so close to greek civilization, Greek culture and language preceded their existence and that is why they are claimed as greeks (which is somehow fair). Every attempt to connect slavs with Alexander the great is idiotic. As for Albanians, Greeks being as racist as they are and with totally bias and no information in their history books, put them in the same place with slavs but dont give an explanation of their origin. Albanians are known to be descendants of Illyirans, have been in the region as long as greeks have and speak a language that is not similar to neither greek, slav or any other...does that mean anything to you greeks? for better or worse albanians have been co-existing with greeks for millenia so get used to the fact...

 
At 10:59 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Albanians are known as the descendats of ilirians,yet ALL the toponims and names of cities in Albania are in SLAVIC???Wow, how did you albos been there (and even in northern greece) for x 1000 years and yet NOT HAVE ONE TOPONIM ON ALBANIAN IN YOUR OWN LAND????How cud you explain this my dear ancient friend???Wow,maybe the Ilirians AND Macedonians BOTH spoke forms of ancient 'slavic" (slavic is a very unfortunate word),as they were known to b kin ppl,aldo at war all the time.

There are new findings - the theory of late arival of Slavs from the pripet marshes is long outdated and only fanatics with political agendas hold onto it.Check this link http://forums.delphiforums.com/VENETI/messages/?msg=303.1

and rejoice how Slovenians succesfully translated ancient Venetic texts using Slovenian,thus flushing in the toilet the "pripet marshes" theory.Also check how modern Macedonians translated the middle,original text of the Roseta Stone with 100% corelation with the Greek (third) text. Also ask your self why in the ancient ruins of the city Dura-Europos, built by anc Macedonians as outpost in asia are there inscriptions on the walls written in (guess guess)archaic SLAVIC, or more corectly MACEDONIAN.Ask yourself why the saint brothers choose the MACEDONIAN dialect of around Solun to spread to other Slavs.Its bcs its THE original 'slavic' language.

Makedon in MK means 'Mother's Land" - Make (mother) - Don(m) - home/land.

Kal is mud/black one and is almost certanly connected with the word Kalash.


Macedonians are not Bulgarians - theyr Macedonians.Bulgars are tatars mixed with Slavs,while modern Macedonians are ancient Macedonians mixed with Slavs.

Greeks, Albos, get over it. We have TONS OF FORENSIC EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT OUR CLAIM.

 
At 11:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry, the whole link is


http://forums.delphiforums.com/VENETI/messages/?msg=303.1

 
At 11:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is this why wont give the whole link i dont understand..

Paste this in continuation of the above link so u can have the right page opened.


sages/?msg=303.1

 
At 11:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Albos should get over the fact that Tosks arrived here in circa 11th century and their language is everything BUT unique.Its a mish-mash of Greek/Macedonian/Turk/Latin/Chechen and who know what else.

What enver hodja tought you in schools was nothing else but to provide u with an artificial, 'glorious' ancient identity - while you still sit on your asses when waiting for the bus - wich clearly points your origins somewhere in Caucasus - your closest relatives?Chechens and Kurds.Do u even know what Arnaut means?Arnauti (who r the infamous Ghegs who do not intermarry with Tosks and cant even understand each other) were payed killers sent by the ottomans to strenghten their rule in Macedonia,wich then incorporated Albania as well..So they left over in a country with SLAVIC toponims and city names.

If kosovo was yours since 'ancient times', why dont you have own word for it while you just twisted the serbian word into Kosova to fit your tongue?

Even your main 'hero' is a brzjak Macedonian!!!For god sake he FIGHTED AGAINST YOU,THE MUSLIMS COZ HE WAS A ORTODOX PROTECTOR OF ALBANIA AND MACEDONIA!!!!Its the same as if the english glorify Napoleon as their national hero.

If you dont believe me,just check his family tree ans check his and his ancestors names.Vladimir,Ivan,Nikola,Gjorgi Kastriot,Jovanka etc etc...

They sound very Albanian, dont u agree :)????

And he was never any skender nor beu. He was nick-named ISKENDER (the turkish version of Alexander)coz the Sultan was impressed with his military skills and called him the second Alexander (obviosly connected with his Macedonian ethnicity). And he was ORTODOX, so any beu (muslim title)is totally out of question.

This should explain quite a few things for you.Its not for nothing that Turkey reckognized Macedonia first.They know very well who we are.

Time to wake up, bros!

 
At 3:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There are few places where Alexander the Great's influence has not been felt. His vast empire spread from the Atlantic shores of Spain to the plains of India. His example has been admired and followed for generations to come, and his legacy has been deeply felt by the entire world. It is said that Julius Ceaser himself began to weep as he stood under the shadow of a statue of Alexander the Great, for Alexander had conquered half the world by 19, and Ceaser not even made a name for himself by that age.
And how was he Albanian in any way? Well, first of all Alexander was son of Philip II and Olympia. Olympia, was the princess of Epirus, a province in Northern Greece, considered to be modern day Albania, and an ancient territory of Albanian tribes. This relation of Alexander having Albanian blood is considered somewhat feasible and acceptable by the history books, but we want to stretch out the enigma of Alexander.
Initially there is the question of where and to what people Alexander belonged to. It is known that Alexander the Great, was really Alexander of Macedon, and the current flag of Macedonia is the ancient sun flag of Alexander's army. This seems reasonable, but what really were the "Macedon" people. As stated in the Compton's Interactive Encyclopedia, "the Slavs, occupied much of the area [Balkans] by the 6th century AD", so it cannot be possible for the now largely Slavic Macedonia to be a descendant from Alexander the Great. Slavic tribes did not come into the region of Northern Greece until well after Alexander's death, which leaves only two people left, the Albanians and the Greeks. It is important tot note that the history books have not labeled Alexander Greek, and therefore he can only be Albanian. Albanian tribes are the earliest known to occupy northern Greece, and that allows Alexander only one nationality. Alexander did not have Albanian blood, he was an Albanian. To Albanians this fact seems very clear, for we have named our currency lek, after Leka I Madh.
The Barbaric war style of the Illyrians was deeply rooted in Alexander's spirit, which is good reason for his expertise as a general and a conqueror.
More proof of Alexander's Albanian ancestry would have to be the close relations he had with the King of the Illyrians, practically a man of his own kin. There is an ancient legend that the Illyrian king gave Alexander a large, beastly, dog to commemorate his achievements. The beast was so ferocious, Alexander decided to make it hunt bears. The dog showed no interest in this endeavor and lay lazily without moving. This angered Alexander and he had the dog killed. When the king of the Illyrians heard of this he sent him another dog, this time with a message of "not wasting the dog's time with small things". This time Alexander had the dog fight a lion, which the dog quickly broke the back of, and then an Elephant, who the dog forced off a cliff. The extensive diplomacy between Alexander and the Illyrians only suggests that Alexander was an Albanian himself.
Also, there is the conquered territory of Alexander. When looking at a map of his advances, oddly enough Illirium and Northern Greece is not touched by his armies. Yet, the Illyrian and Northern Greek tribes did not have armies capable of facing the Great Alexander. But Alexander considered them as one, they were all Albanian. Alexander could not possibly conquer his own land. That is why this area remained untouched.
Accepting Alexander's Albanian ancestry opens a vast world of possibilities. There is of course the long Ptolemy dynasty of Egypt that followed after Alexander's death, started by one of Alexander's generals and childhood friend. Accepting Alexander as an Albanian, would mean accepting a big part of Egypt's history to be determined by an Albanian dynasty, that of Ptolemy.
Alexander's genius and accomplishments opened a great chapter in the history of Albania. A chapter that has never been forgotten.
[/QUOTE]http://albhistory.netfirms.com/famousalbanian s-alexander.html

 
At 7:37 PM, Blogger stalker said...

Please open your eyes - ALBANIANS ARE NOT ILIRIANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!You r dreaming a dream, boy!!!Croatians and Serbs have been calling themselves Ilirians in the 16th century.Where were u then?In caucasus?If u accept that modern Albanians are really former Ilirian 'Slavic" speakers who distorted their tongue when the Romans arrived and they sided with them against the Macedons, and that modern Macedonians are closest thing to ancient Macedons - if not in blood - then in culture,conciesness,name,traditions and all else,surely - i may accept that you r really Ilirians.

And,Olympias wasnt Ilirian - she was GREEK!its out of question that she was a Ilirian, she was a MOLLOSIAN (Greek)princess of Epirus!!!Thats why Phillip hated her so much,like he hated all greeks.

Modern Macedonians dance the Thracian sword dance first mentioned in 500bc, they paint them selves with Ilirian tatoos, perform the ancient fertility rites found in ancient Macedons etcetcetc. Its time to wake up to the reality.Even if we accept the pripet marshes as true - didnt it never occured to you that maybe ancient Macedonians took the language of the incoming Slavs,yet remaining Macedonians?Its nothing strange - just look at the Scots.


And if the anc Macedonians were Ilirans,their name would have been Ilirians - not Macedonians - so stop talking childish nonsense!!!They were MACEDONIANS - nothing more nothing less nothing else.

I told you - the theory of 6ad 'slavic' arrival is no longer valid.It was dissproved by million scholars.Update your software,check some 2007 scientists reports!!!Such a scenario is simply NOT POSSIBLE!Think it out for yourself and you will see thAt its IMPOSSIBLE for 300.000 + ppl, man woman and children in 1-2 years to make such a migration with all the nececery suplies of food, horses, other animals and then swim over the danube WICH IS ALL BUT IMPOSSIBLE!!!Think with your own brain and youll see that thats the truth.Not to say that it has been already disprooved by Serbian,Russian,Slovakian,Macedonian,American,Italian etc scholars.Check Mario Alinei for exmpl.

And do you even know what SLAV means?It means word,so the slavs are nothing more than the ancient speaking ppl.Theyr not a same race.Theyr different ethnicities who only speak different forms of the same root langage - MACEDONIAN. The russians arent polish,nor the slovaks are serbs.

Language doesnt equal ethnicity - it does only for modern Greeks coz their identity is based solely on their resurected language,while nothing else connects them with the ancients.

Pozdrav

 
At 11:22 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

We all do respect without offendin anyone but must of the comments in here are so stupid and nonsense.
The following is ‘THE REVELATION’ as understood by a descendant of the Illyr-Albanian Heritage. God’s message finally revealed in His identity to the Western World as the result of the unwritten knowledge gained from an insight into the Illyr-Albanian pre-historic past based on the Illyr-Albanian Language which was and remains the Language of God and as the result of an intuitive spiritual awareness. This analysis is probably more accurate than any subsequent revelation. No one should minimize the value of the subsequent understandings. These are part of the ‘human spiritual evolution’ however misunderstood, misinterpreted or misguided by cultures not having the insight into the early Illyr-Albanian Language and World or misapplied what had been learned.


There is nothing mysterious about God and His message. The intuitive spiritual awareness is supplemented with reasoning, one of our many gifts. Perhaps we can now apply that gift and try to understand the human history that we have become so used to. The only great mystery about religion is ourselves and the ‘politics’ (human interpretations) in which we seem to insist on infusing into it without understanding the origins – the probable early thoughts of our ancestors.


The conclusion will be bound up in the concepts of the ‘goodness of the human spirit’ and the ‘goodness of conception’. You are the author of your life and the hope comes from renewal and/or continuation of the ‘goodness of the human spirit’. As the Son of Mother Earth, from Whose Virgin Womb He was born, God is not beyond our awareness and certainly not beyond an almost tangible quality of the gift the ‘goodness of the human spirit’.


The Illyr-Albanian Language, spoken by the oldest continuous civilization in the Western World, and maybe even the world, is the master key to understanding the early human spiritual evolution. It may enable us to distinguish between truth and human interpretation – the politics as well as business of religion that has evolved.


It is the purpose of this writing to record and hopefully enlighten with the documentation of this unwritten knowledge and establish a new source for understanding the concept of God, the real essence of His, ‘THE REVELATION’, not in the context of the history of a particular culture but its origin based on the creation by the earliest man that subsequently influenced most of the people of the world. The Illyr-Albanian World is the closest connection we have to the earliest man.


We are extremely fortunate that the Hebrews and Greeks left many writings and translations of religious books and histories and likewise fortunate that the Illyr-Albanian Language and characteristics of the Illyr-Albanian groups have survived and remained similar throughout the ages establishing a fair source as the result of continuity of both language and characteristics that stretch far back into the pre-historic era. From the writings –names and words - we, like archeologists, might attempt to piece together a story from ragments and place them in a more realistic context. From the Illyr-Albanian Language we might gain an insight and perspective that would otherwise be lost for all time with regard to the origin and then the evolution of concepts - names and words - that found their way into the Hebrew and Greek worlds.


We are now learning that what was thought to be the earliest civilization, Mesopotamia, (9000 years ago) had a contemporary in the Thracians of the Balkans (Mystery Gold of the Black Sea Warriors – 2004). To understand how Thrace relates to the Illyr-Albanians the following appeared in the 1911 Enc. Britannica.


“Thrace…There is no well-defined difference between aboriginal Thracians and Illyrians. Thus there was an Illyrian tribe, Brygi; a Thracian tribe, Bryges: and, in Strabo’s time, a tribe called Dardani (Kosova), then reckoned Illyrian, living next to the Thracian Bessi (in whose land was the oldest oracle of Dionysus), were probably as much Thracian as Illyrian.” (Bessa; an ancient concept among Illyr-Albanians that means ‘faith’, ‘religion’, ‘pledge of honor’, ‘loyalty’.)


Our knowledge of God comes from the written histories and Holy Books of the Hebrews who compiled much of these writings during an era of the Mesopotamian period. The Hebrews, referred to as the chosen people of God claimed to be enlightened because they supposedly understood the Language of God, Who had revealed Himself to them. It is important to understand that the Hebrews, like the Greeks and others possessed knowledge gained in the pre-historic era when there was a Language of God, Illyr-Albanian, whereby God’s Revelation was expressed through the perceptions of nature by the early people which evolved into a ‘folk religion’ as opposed to ‘book religion’ that we know today based on a particular cultural heritage. God’s Revelation had been expressed by the very fact of awareness on the part of the early people and the goodness of the human spirit that inspired it. There is a great wisdom in this unwritten knowledge of God because there is the connection between the early people and their perceptions of nature that initiated this awareness, a process that ignited mans’ spirituality.


It is a remarkable fact that God did not reveal His identity, His personal name to the Hebrews except to say ‘I am that I am’, ‘Yahweh’. This so-called revelation was probably due to a misunderstanding of the origin of the pronoun ‘I’, in the Illyr-Albanian Language, ‘Ou’, and the probable evolution of it as the substitute for the noun or name. It is not unlike the Greek ‘Ouranos’, the name of the first God, Heaven, which is really the Illyr-Albanian phrase ‘I fell’, ‘Ou Ra’. If you are a cave-person of thousands of years ago and you view the earth and sky, the sky appears to fall in the distance, in every direction you view – the same that we see today. If you follow the path of the sun from where the sky meets the earth you make a bridge overhead. In Illyr-Albanian ‘ura’ is ‘bridge’, ‘urate’ is ‘the blessed Father’. In my essay ‘The Language of God’ I stated that ‘It was my contention that this concept, the sky appearing to fall to the earth, may have been the most significant to the people of the pre-historic era when their religious ideas were evolving.” I believe that the origin of the name ‘Ur’, the home of Abraham, the Father of Monotheism, One God worship, derives from the concept ‘ura’, and this significance may not have been lost on the early Biblical writers.


I am explaining this because at the earliest times the Illyr-Albanian name for God, the pronoun ‘Ou’, probably evolved from the practice of re-enacting religious stories in the first person, and that the pronoun was used as a substitute for the noun or name in this re-enactment. By the time of the Hebrews and Greeks, and who knows when and how it channeled into their cultures, the pronoun became part of their ideas and with limited knowledge they structured their own understandings.


So it was not that God revealed Himself as ‘I am that I am’ to the Hebrews, nor that the Greeks named the first God, ‘Ouranos’. Their knowledge came from pre-historic channels, the evolution of which they did not fully comprehend nor appreciate. The Illyr-Albanians eventually lost this significance as well, but there are enough fragments to restructure the probability.


The pronoun ‘I’ was not an only example. James Churchward, in 1933, in his ‘Sacred Symbols of MU’ states that the Mother Earth religion was referred to as ‘MU’ as far back as 70,000 years ago. ‘Mu’ is the Illyr-Albanian pronoun ‘Me’. Another possible example of the pronoun is ‘He’, or ‘He is I’ based on the analysis of the name of the first son of the Greek God Ouranos. His name was Kronus and the possible etymology based on the Illyr-Albanian Language was ‘He is I’; ‘Kr Oun’, or ‘Kr esht Oun’. That is either God comes to earth as a mortal or that he sent his son. Hence the recognition of either the possibility of a messiah, or probability of the inevitable ‘next generation’. (‘Oh Albania, My Poor Albania’ – 1980 – pages 7, 18; by this writer).


When the members of family were passing away they were thought to become ‘godlike’ to the early people. In Illyr-Albanian a name for God was ‘Perendia’, the word for west ‘perendim’, the equation being that the sun passes away in the west. I believe that this is, as well, the real significance of the Western Wall (the wailing wall). There was a strong affinity for ancestoral reverence by the Hebrews. In many cultures when one dies there is an attempt to bury before the setting of the sun the next day. Few ideas in the world of religion in the pre-historic era were mutually exclusive though origins were not sometimes clear. However misunderstood, these ideas found their way into many cultures but there are enough clues (perceptions of nature and corresponding word and name development) to indicate that the origin was related to the Illyr-Albanian World – the Civilization that left no writings.


In order for the Hebrews to understand with at least a minimum of success the concept of God in their culture two spiritual tools evolved: the Zohar, which means ‘splendor’ in Hebrew, is a “commentary on the Bible structured as conversations among a group of friends, scholars, and spiritual masters… (a)lthough the wisdom available in its pages is older than Creation itself, the text of the Zohar was composed approximately 2000 years ago…”; and the Kaballah, ‘received tradition’, the ‘intuitive spiritual awareness’ and the enumeration of what the concept of God includes. I believe that these spiritual tools evolved because there was no clear understanding of the origin of God, whether it was realized or not, except as The Creator Who did not sufficiently identify Himself to them – He did not Reveal His personal name.


Did God chose the Illyr-Albanian groups rather than Israel to be the vehicle of Revelation – but no one listened, understood or recorded it? Perhaps the Illyr-Albanians were too involved as participants in their spiritual awareness, too secure in their understandings of it and it was too widespread among them – common knowledge – to find a need to record it, indeed if they had the ability to do so. The Illyr-Albanian influence was present and the fact that it had not been recorded does not mean that it wasn’t so. It is not sacrilegious to learn about it – indeed it is the most religious – spiritually –that one can do. Human history and the hope for the future is forcing a renewal in understanding ‘Revelation’ and religious truths based on origin and not the ‘politics’ of any particular culture.


Let us review the Illyr-Albanian history – a Civilization that left no writings, and the concept continuity in order to attempt to establish validity for source when trying to understand a pre-historic era despite the fact that scholars accept the history of religion or the birth of Western Civilization based mostly on ‘writings’.


Contents:


I. Illyr-Albania: A Civilization that left no writings.


II. ‘In the Beginning’


III. The First God, The Second Coming


IV. The Name of God and The Goodness of Conception


The Universal Message


I. Illyr-Albania: The Civilization that left no writings.


In his ‘Hymn of Liberation’ and an interesting example of ‘intuitive spiritual awareness’, one Vaso Pasha, in 1881, wrote:


“Oh Albania, My Poor Albania


Who (or what) has put your head in the ashes?


You were once a woman of great importance


The people of the Earth used to call the Mother!”


The fact that the Illyr-Albanian Civilization was one that left no writings would probably answer the question ‘Who (or what) has put your head in the ashes?’ By 1887 the Albanians established a western alphabet. That might be considered late for many to assess the Illyr-Albanian World a civilization at all let alone the oldest continual one in the Western World. What does constitute a civilization may be difficult to determine and some consider their own to be the standard. Be that as it may it should be no small factor that the Illyr-Albanian groups had the logistic ability before 300 B.C. to support Alexander the Great and his Illyrian troops in an attempt to conquer the known world. The thousands of years before that time may not have been recorded but the language, though unwritten, served as a fact of existence and subsequent tool that has lead to this and other analyses of the most profound importance. The language might also serve as a source since it unites us with the past and through the analysis of names and words we gain a perspective that can be had with no other language. The characteristics of the Illyr-Albanian groups that remained similar through the ages can serve as fact for ‘continuity’.


-From ‘Lands and Peoples’, Grolier Society (1929-49):


‘Albania And Its Mountaineers; The Land of the Eagle People’


“Probably less is known of Albania than of any other country in Europe, though Albania is the home of the oldest people of the Balkan Peninsula. In spite of many centuries under foreign rule, they have kept a national feeling and also a language and customs quite different from the people in the neighboring countries. They call their country Shqypnie, or Shqiperia, meaning the Land of the Eagles…So early was their beginning that history and even legend does not tell when they arrived…The Albanian language, which has survived so many centuries, has ever been a puzzle to philologists. Unlike the Greek or Slav of the neighboring countries, it is thought to have come from the primitive Illyrian, the language of Macedonia in the time of Alexander the Great. All attempts of the Serb, Greek and Turk have failed to destroy the Albanians’ love for it. Once, in southern Albania, where some of the people are Albanian Orthodox Christians, the priests taught that it was useless to pray in Albanian for God could not understand it. The Turks forbade giving instruction or printing books in the language…”


-From ‘Peaks of Shala’, by R. Lane (1923):


“Constantinople’s nothing. Everyone goes to Constantinople. But if you don’t see Albania, you’re wasting the chance of a lifetime. Up in those mountains-right up there in those mountains, a day’s journey from here – the people are living as they lived twenty centuries ago, before the Greeks or the Roman or the Slav was ever known. There are prehistoric cities up there, old legends, songs, customs that no one knows anything about. No strangers ever even seen them. Great Scot, woman! And you sit there and talk about Constantinople!”


“But if nobody goes, how can we do so?” I said.


“How does anyone ever do anything? Simply do it. Hire horses, get on them, and go.”


“Carrying our own guns?”


“Oh we’ll be safe enough! We may run into a blood feud or two, and get our guides shot


up, but nobody ever harms a woman. Nobody even shoots a man in her presence.”


-From ‘A Military History of the Western World’, by J. Fuller:


“But it was in his (Alexander the Great) outlook upon women – in nearly all ages considered the legitimate spoil of the soldier - that Alexander stood in a totally different moral world compared with the one inhabited by his contemporaries. Not only did he treat the captive wife and daughters of Darius with royal respect, but he held in abhorrence rape and violence, which in his day were the universal concomitants of war…”


In 1997 an archeological excavation took place in Albania near the town of Konispol in Southern Albania. At the cave site it was discovered that the cave was used as a birthing station for the shepherds’ flocks some ll,000 years ago. Today that same cave is used for the same purpose.


It may be that the fact that the Illyr-Albanian groups had no writings in some ways insulated them from deterioration or extinction because the culture had a very old and strong foundation and continuity and stability were not affected by the passage of time. This does not mean that there were no changes – things were gained and lost – but the basic, shall I say ‘primitive’ aspects of the cultural heritage were sustained.


In recorded times (recorded by others) we can guess that the Illyr-Albanian Civilization was a unique schooling for the young and ambitious and the results were repeated many times throughout history. It was more than just impressive achievements about how the Illyr-Albanians managed to take over their conquerors. Rather it was a confirmation of continuity, stability and endurance that this ‘schooling’ within the Illyr-Albanian Civilization must have provided. It allowed a unique perspective in the way the world was viewed by them.


When Ed. Gibbons wrote the classic the “Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire” he stated that Rome was saved by a ‘series of great princes who derived their obscure origin from the martial provinces of Illyria’. He conceded that the inevitable fall could not be prevented but that for a time the Empire was restored by the Illyrians.


In many writings about the Ottoman Empire the same word was used ‘Restorers’ about the Kuprili Family and other Albanians of obscure origin that restored that Empire. Some forty Albanians achieved Grand Vizer status – today’s equivalent might be Prime Minister.


In the modern era the Albanians played a key role in establishing nations around the Mediterranean world including Egypt, Italy, Greece, Romania and Turkey. In truth they had difficulty in establishing their own nation of Albania but that is a topic for another time. Neighbors and so-called scholars were not blameless.


An example of continuity by way of characteristics that stretches thousands of years is that of the Mati tribe of Albania. They served as spear throwers in Alexander’s army. They served the Roman legions in the same capacity. In the Middle Ages they served as mercenaries again in the same capacity in Europe. There could be many such studies about particular tribes from Albania and many were recorded by others – mostly pertaining to the military.


The biggest disadvantage of a Civilization that left no writings is the fact that scholars and others (who were too lazy to do research and too impressed with the ‘writings’ of other cultures) were able to confiscate the facts about the land and people of the Illyr-Albanian groups without correction or consequence. By the time of our era the Illyr-Albanian groups were divided into five or six countries in the Balkans.


There are many fragments of information however that one can read like the record in the League of Nations before 1920 where it states that the language in the Greek Navy was Albanian primarily because all the officers were of Albanian origin. There was a story about a document found during World War II that in 1827 the Greek parliament took a vote to change the national language of Greece to Albanian and it lost by 3 votes. It made little difference to most in the Western schools that the Illyr-Albanian story would ever be told. However Lord Byron, an English writer and poet was impressed to see that the Albanians were leading the Greek War of Independence in 1821. He died among them in Missolongi. The first President of Greece was an Albanian from the island of Hydra, Admiral Kondourioti.


The characteristics of the Albanians in Turkey and Italy have been recorded and to a great extent similar to those witnessed in Greece. The characteristic of Ataturk, Father of Modern Turkey, would provide an interesting study. Both parents of Ataturk were of Albanian origin. (Orga, Irfan, ‘Ataturk’, 1962)


Language and characteristics of the people of the Illyr-Albanian World can serve as a unique source as the result of their existence and the existence of the Illyr-Albanian Language and the continuity, stability and endurance of a very ancient people. It was here in this place, the Illyr-Albanian World of the Balkans, in this circumstance, a civilization that left no writings, that the Illyr-Albanian people and their stories evolved, Western Man evolved, Western Civilization was born, and then the stories were lost. We shall now proceed to take fragments from Hebrew and Greek writings and attempt to gain a new insight into some religious truths.


II. “In the Beginning God created The Heaven and The Earth”


“In the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth.” That is the opening line of the Bible, Book of Genesis and one that would cause problems for the Hebrews in their attempts to make a starting point for the history of religion. A more accurate statement based on the probable early thoughts of our ancestors, the people of the ‘folk religion’ would be that ‘In the beginning there was the Earth that was known as ‘Mother Earth’ and from Her Virgin Womb came God’.


The story of Jesus as a Messiah and the Virgin Mother was an attempt to duplicate what had been understood for thousands of years before the time of Abraham and was part of the unwritten knowledge. Actually, the story of Jesus and Mary may have been the attempt by some Hebrews at the re-enactment of the earlier history of God being born of the Virgin Mother Earth and later that re-enactment became something more to the Gentile as well as some Hebrews and then spun out of control. I say that it spun out of control because the Gentile and even some Hebrews had not understood the origin and foundation of the religion from the thousands of years ago. What they were witnessing was the re-enactment of history and then they grasped it as substance and then built substance upon it. The Illyrian, Emperor of Rome (c.350 A.D.), Julian, nephew of Constantine the Great, suggested that the Christians added new things daily. The Hebrews, especially the women, had a strong spiritual affinity for Mother Earth at the time of Jesus so there were many who probably understood this re-enactment of history and as a result this strong reluctance by most Hebrews toward Jesus as the Messiah.


There can be no doubt that in order for what is referred to as Monotheism, worship of One God to take root and survive, an accounting of a Virgin Mother would eventually have to be made and if God was the Creator of Heaven and Earth, the story of a Virgin Birth would have to be replaced. Enter the ‘politics’ of religion to correct the problem and so it did perhaps using the New Testament as the vehicle. For the Hebrews and others that would follow in the belief of One God, the human ‘politics’ would have to impose ideas that would establish new ‘truths’ and ‘religious politics’ would require a replacement of a Virgin Mother albeit changing time tables.


The Greeks referred to the Virgin Mary as ‘Theotokos’, ‘the bearer of God’. The Illyr-Albanian ‘toke’ translates to land or territory, i.e. earth, and that is what the Virgin Mary was supposed to represent and duplicate in the re-enactment – the Virgin Mother Earth, ‘toke’ Who gave birth to the first God – an understanding thousands of years before the time of Christ.


III. The First God, The Second Coming


We are learning more and more that many things, because of the politics were placed in the form of codes by those in ancient times who had a higher level of understanding. Hebrew scholars, as well as others are constantly trying to decipher the codes whether they are in the Bible or other writings. This is in part because there is an understanding that there was unwritten knowledge and gaps and inconsistencies in information and a strong desire among the wise men of old to permit at least the chance for ‘truth’ to become known. We must appreciate that among the wise men there might also have been an attempt at double meanings in coding. One possibility as an example was the name of the birthplace of Jesus, Bethlehem. ‘Beth’ is the second letter in the Hebrew alphabet, maybe signifying that Jesus was the ‘second’ coming or that it was the re-enactment of the history of God, His birth, that became something more.


IV. The Name of God And The Goodness of Conception


‘THE REVELATION’ of the name of God is a very important and significant matter. There is no great mystery in understanding this essence. It confirms spiritual awareness and validates reverence for the ancestors. And if it is not too late, the reverence for the ‘future’ – not just our personal one, our salvation if you insist - but that which we pass on to our descendants. As a result ‘faith in the goodness of the human spirit’ should be appreciated as much as a part of our survival as ‘faith’ is a part of our personal spiritual beliefs based on the ‘politics’ of religion.


The name of God, His personal name, one that He did not share even with the so-called chosen people, IS the ‘Goodness of the Human Spirit’. Add to this ‘THE REVELATION’, the ‘Goodness of Conception’, albeit in the only instance of a Virgin Conception except for the Re-enactment that evolved into substance.


The identification of His personal name is based on the recognition on the part of our early ancestors, their spiritual awareness and their ‘goodness of human spirit’ that created the concept of God in their understandings.


-The Goodness of Conception


It would be wonderful if the Greek ‘Omphalos’ -the navel- ‘The Stone of Splendor’ and the Hebrew ‘Zohar’, ‘Splendor’ had the identical origin and based on ‘conception’ – the process of ‘fertilization’ and resulting ‘life’, but it is unlikely because who knows when and how the Greeks and Hebrews became enlightened and what they absorbed from the Illyr-Albanian World over countless centuries in the pre-historic era and who knows even if that meaning was lost to them. The advantage we have with this Illyr-Albanian story is the perspective as to the direction both the Greek and Hebrew took in the evolution of religion and away from the original thought of our early ancestors.


From the Illyr-Albanian unrecorded past we might review the early divisions of the Illyr-Albanian groups – Gheg to the north (‘veri’) ‘place of the egg’ (‘ve’ ‘ri’) of the Genusus River (ancient name meaning ‘earth as a bride’ ‘ge nuse’) in central Albania, and Tosk, Lab, and Cham to the south of the Genusus. Semeni River (ancient name) is in the Southern part of Albania. With the aid of Hesiod’s ‘Genesis of the Gods’, written B.C. and my analysis in book and essay forms, we might begin to appreciate the value in the names and words that apply to the old Illyr-Albanian divisions as well as other concepts in the Illyr-Albanian World. If I were to summarize the names I would say that ‘Also, in the beginning, there had been a great division (Cha), one part evolved (La) into the Mother (Ge), the other part evolved (La) into the Father (Tos). In this ‘THE REVELATION’ it is implicit that religious spirituality is a part of the ‘created life’ because our ancestors insisted on it through their spiritual awareness and what they passed on to us. They made spirituality of the ‘created life’ part of the Illyr-Albanian Heritage and even if this significance had been lost in the consciousness of the people of the ‘folk religion’ it would be recovered through our reasoning process, the fragments left in the writings by others, names and words, and an ‘intuitive spiritual awareness’.


V. The Universal Message


I have tried to understand the truth based on origin and balance it with the limits of human capacity. Understand that I am not unmindful of the spiritual energies one places and has placed on their personal beliefs. My attempts have been to enlighten on the most profound issues and not to offend. It may be that our era is forcing some kind of truth about ourselves, re-analyzing ‘Revelation’. It is not necessarily answers that we should look for but rather some kind of understanding about our world, our interpretations and our future. We might pay attention to those concepts which affect civilizations negatively: decadence, perversion, self-indulgence and superficiality. One may not wish to accept this writing as documentation but be skeptical about so much writing that is accepted. If interested time will allow reflection, study and perhaps a more conscious (as opposed to delusional) life experience. I am certain that unless we understand the human history, the role of ‘spiritual awareness’, reverence for the ‘created life’ as expressed in the very existence of the Illyr-Albanian World, and the spiritual birth of God, the future will not be kind to us. There must be reverence for our spiritual existence, an understanding of it and less of the ‘politics of religion’.


The question should never have been Whether you believe in God, but rather Does God believe in you – i.e., are you worthy or do you strive to be so? That is the essence of our human spirit.


Next, the question is Do your actions or will exemplify the ‘Goodness of the Human Spirit’ and not your ‘political’ preferences? That is the essence of God.


And finally, Does one appreciate and fully comprehend the concept of the ‘Goodness of Conception’? That is the essence of Mother Earth, both on the Divine level, the Family of God, and on the Human level, the Family of Man and Woman; and that which sustains us.


A Trend Toward Ligh While this planet Earth, slowly turns


From Day to Night, and continues its turn,


A kind of Mother to watch our plight,


What we do know is a TREND TOWARD LIGHT.


…and the flowers cling to the Earth


I have introduced to you a window into the Illyr-Albanian Civilization and World as I intuitively understood it to be and the probable early human spiritual evolution. It is also an introduction of new possibilities for analyses that might lead to a better understanding, a better ‘Us’, and a better world. Illyr-Albania, is the oldest continuous civilization in the Western World, a civilization until relatively recent that left no writings and one that still exists today – Continuity, Stability, Endurance and always a sense of Goodness among the people of the ‘folk religion’, even in the most horrific times. There is enough fair written material for one to search and to enlighten comprehension. I think that I have found the origin of the well-spring of much that evolved spiritually in our world and for a long time its significance remained part of the unwritten knowledge.


-From Homeric Hymn, ‘To Earth, Mother of All’ (800 B.C.)


“I will sing of well-founded Earth, Mother of All, eldest of all beings. She feeds all creatures in the world, all that go upon the goodly land, and all that are in the paths of the seas, and all that fly: all these are fed of her store. Through you, O Queen, men are blessed in their children and blessed in their harvests, and to you it belongs to give means of life to mortal men and to take it away. Happy is the man whom you delight to honour: He has all things abundantly: his fruitful land is laden with corn, his pastures are covered with cattle, and his house is filled with good things. Such men rule orderly in their cities of fair women: great riches and wealth follow them: their sons exult with ever-fresh delight, and their daughters in flower-laden bands play and skip merrily over the soft flowers of the field. Thus is it with those whom you honour O Holy Goddess, bountiful spirit.


“Hail Mother of the Gods, wife of starry Heaven; freely bestow upon me for this my song substance that cheers the heart! And now I will remember you and another song also.”


-Vaso Pasha’s “Oh Albania…” (1881)


“Oh Albania, My Poor Albania,


Who Has Put Your Head In The Ashes?


You Were Once A Woman Of Great Importance.


The People Of The Earth Used To Call Thee, Mother!”


-The Battlefield


Every battlefield has had an aftermath,


Every sadness…a song,


Every failure…some hope,


And every joy…a sadness,


…and the flowers came back to share some time on Earth.



CONTENT
Home
History
Documents & Facts
Dalmatia
Illyria
Ethnic Albania
Arberesh
Scanderbeg
Chronology of Albania
Albanian Cities
Edith Durham
Stolen Archeology
Kosova
Chronology of Kosova
Kosova Heroes
Çameria
Serb Crimes
Serb Projects
Albanian Anthem
Pledge to the Flag

United around the flag
With one desire and one goal
Let us pledge our word of honor
To fight for our salvation
Only he who is a born traitor
Averts from the struggle
He who is brave is not daunted
But falls - a martyr to the cause
With arms in hand we shall remain
To guard our fatherland round about
Our rights we will not bequeath
Enemies have no place here
For the Lord Himself has said
That nations vanish from the earth
But Albania shall live on
Because for her, it is for her that we fight

Listen to the National Anthem here!
"Murdered and like many hogs they had their throats slit by the Albanians." End Result of an Ottoman Campaign in Scanderbeg's Albania Links
Illyria Entertainment
"High Albania" by Edith Durham - Digital Library of University of Pennsylvenia
Scanderbeg Video

 
At 4:30 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey guys don`t you get it.The hall world was Greek.But than, unfortunately, some alliance(with different language and cultures)had invaded the planet earth and successively they had been forced to get isolated on the southern part of Balkan peninsula and the Himalayas .
However, guys do not allow the greek lobby to wash your brain.
And for the greeks: maybe you are stronger and outnumber than us but we are tougher and the true is on our site.
MACEDONIA BELONGS TO MACEDONIANS.
It`s very simple.

 
At 3:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here are some similarities between albanian and kalasha:

English - Albanian - Kalasha
bone - ashti - athi
water - ujë - ukh
elbow -......- harkin (in alb.: "hark" is "arch")
leg - gjuri - khur
cloud - mjegull - minji
smoke - tym - thum
flower - lule - gambur (in alb.: gemb= piece of flower)
orizi -......- grinzh (in alb.: grun=wheat)
meat - mishi - mos
horn - drith - shin (in alb.: shin=harvest of horns)
mosquito - mushkonja - trak[B]manga[/B]sh (look the similarity: in alb. meri[B]manga[/B] is spider)
husband - beru - burre
boy - bir - [B]pur[/B]ushguek - in illyrian "pur" means boy and in alb "bir" means boy
girl -.........-[B]shtrizha[/B]guek (in alb.: shtriga means witch)
yesterday - dje - dosh
right - drejt - drach
below - nën - nuna
where - ku - kawa
same - barabar - barubar
bite - kafshon - ashato (in alb.: and "kashat" means "biten bread"
drink - pi - pi
see -......- pashi (in alb.: "pash" means "I saw"

Well let's continue with khowari words:

English - Albanian - Khowar
bone - koc, kockë - kol
rain - [B]shi[/B] - bo[B]shi[/B]k
water - ujë - ugh
ash - hiri - pheru
salt - kryp - trup
mother - nana - nan
short - ishkurti - iskurdi
hot -.......- pech (alb.: "pjek", "piq" means "to grill" "to roast")
where - ku - kura
which - cili - kiwali
same - barabar - barabar
see - po shikoj - poshik
I - u, un, - awa

 
At 5:21 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If Aleksandar Macedonian is in fact Greek than all people in Greecee are Macedonians and part from slovenian group of nations,good buy Elada.Than not have problem with the name of Republic of Macedonia,normal that's original fact.

 
At 5:33 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shipnia like state is after vfirst balkanian war,saw albanians doesn't have historical arguments for anyone question about normal civilization comunications,Macedonians are the greatest natchion in the world and have primary target for any question all out from this is yust stupped discutions.

 
At 6:57 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's a genetic report showing the closest genetic neighbors to the Kalash are the Yugoslavians (of which Macedonia was a part until 1991, and who also speak the same language as Macedonian, ie Sebian, Croatian, Slovenian etc are related to modern Macedonian). Not only that, but other Slavic contries are also close, virtually clinching this argument (Note - i don't believe the link works, but the report can be found at archive.org, or should at least be in a genetic journal)


HUMAN RACES CALCULATOR
[Home Page] [Calculator Menu] [Guestbook]
Y-Chromosome Haplogroup Frequency in Selected 69 Eurasian Populations

View Profile
Select Population:

Pakistani Kalash CHART
Population hg1 hg2 hg3 hg4 hg7 hg8 hg9 hg10 hg12 hg13 hg16 hg21 hg22 hg26 hg28
Pakistani Kalash 10 39 19 0 0 0 10 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 25

DISTANCE FROM Pakistani Kalash
Population Distance
1 Yugoslavian 30
2 Indian Uttar Pradesh Rajputs 30
3 Bulgarian 32
4 Northern Swedish 32
5 Ukranian 33
6 Indian Uttar Pradesh Brahmins 33
7 Romanian 33
8 Georgian 34
9 Belarusian 35
10 Norwegian 35
11 Gotlander 35
12 Slovenian 36
13 Pakistani Makrani Negroid 36
14 Pakistani Pathan 37
15 Indian Uttar Pradesh Chamars 37
16 Armenian 38
17 Hungarian 39
18 Chuvash 39
19 Pakistani Burusho 40
20 Czech 40
21 Pakistani Baluch 42
22 Turkish 42
23 Dutch 43
24 Pakistani Balti 43
25 Pakistani Brahui 44
26 Sardinian 45
27 Muslim Kurds 45
28 Icelandic 46
29 Slovakian 46
30 Pakistani Makrani Baluch 46
31 Greek 46
32 German 46
33 Pakistani Sindhi 47
34 Russian 47
35 Bavarian 49
36 Danish 49
37 Cypriot 50
38 Polish 50
39 Pakistani Parsi 51
40 Saami 51
41 French 52
42 Sephardic Jews 52
43 Estonian 53
44 Kurdish Jews 54
45 East Anglian 55
46 Latvian 55
47 Italian 55
48 Ossetian 58
49 Ashkenazi Jews 58
50 Mari 58
51 Lithuanian 62
52 Indian Uttar Pradesh Muslims 63
53 Pakistani Kashmiri 63
54 Southern Portuguese 63
55 Belgian 63
56 Northern Portuguese 66
57 Palestinian Arabs 67
58 Finnish 70
59 Spanish 71
60 Western Scottish 72
61 Bedouin 74
62 Pakistani Hazara 76
63 Algerian 77
64 Basque 80
65 Scottish 80
66 Irish 82
67 Cornish 82
68 Northern African 91

Source: ´Y-Chromosomal Diversity in Europe Is Clinal and Influenced Primarily by Geography, Rather than by Language.´ Table 1.
Rosser et al. Am. J. Hum. Genet. 67:1526–1543, 2000

[link]
web/20021104200524/
www25.brinkster.com/humanraces/calc/haplo_profiles.asp?d

 
At 10:50 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh for crying out loud!! I googled "Kalash" to read about these unique people, not to read about all the crap that is littering the web. This is not a Macedonia forum!!! Every f$@%&*g Tom Dick Harry and his dog has a half witted opinion and wants to spread his/her propaganda. None of you know what you are talking about and none of you know the whole truth (neither do I). We have all been brainwashed to some extent, so shut up, unless you can make a positive contribution.

For the record I am Macedonian and proud to be Greek!

 
At 10:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why would a Kalsh leader be named Saifulla Jan, if he is not Muslim...

Saif = Sword
ulla = Commonly used Islamic suffix mean "of Allah"
Jan = Turkish word mean dear or love.

 
At 5:34 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

By force people were coverted to islam.It was always like that even now it is.
Alek-san-dar=Ilij-sin-poklon=Sun-son-gift.
The gift from the Sun is your Son.
look at macedonina flag golden yellow sun.
Zeus-Zevs-Zvezda-STAR
Sun is the Star.macedonians worshiped the SON the GOD Zeus the Star GOD.
Alexandar means the gift of the SUN god,he was a son of Zeus.
Its macedonian language in our language it has a meaning its perfectly understandable.Ita has a sence we speak the same language since the anciant time.
Aleksandar-son of a god-son of Zeus(star-sun).
Ilija-Achlius-SUN
Ilija-ILIJ-Alij-Alek.
ILIJ-SUN, Zeus-STAR
Alek-SUN, Zvezda-Star.
You misspronounce and you transcribe wrong all the ancient texts couse its not your language and you dont understand it.
So Kalash are macedonians.And they are amezing,as macedonians are.
Albanians-shkiptar.They are shiptars not iliryans.
Alba=White
people whit white hat.Its german word for shiptar.Shiptars are converted muslims mixed with asian new comers from arabia that came with TURKS.By force they were convereted to islam.Shkiptars are not iliyrians.
macedonians are ILIJANS ,the people of SUN.
Ilijans-Ilijans-Elenians-Helleniyans-Hellenics.
again you misspronounce and you transcribe wrong.
It all has a meaning.You can find out easy if you can speak present Macedonin language.
macedonia-MAKEDONIJA is eternal.

 
At 10:09 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If I am not mistaken from the Kalash DNA study, a small percentage of men were being found in Y Haplo Group H or H1.

That is interesting because many
European Romany / Gypsy people are also being found in Y Haplo H - H1

I am a British Romany descendant and I am in Y Haplo H or H1.
The British Romany do share some physical traits with some Kalash.
One interesting thing to note is the gray to greenish gray or bluish gray eyes in some Kalash people.
I too have gray eyes with some brown in them.

Many of my ancestors were described with Brown eyes, gray eyes, blue to light blue eyes.

If some Kalash men are in fact being found in this rare DNA group, Y Haplo Group H or H1, there appears to be a direct tie to the European Romany / Gypsy people.

When I compare my DNA, I share very similar DNA to the men of India and Pakistan.
The Romany are a nomadic traveling people too.

 
At 5:23 PM, Blogger Sinisa said...

Serbs, and people living in Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia are virtually one nation. We have the same DNA origin. Our languages are almost the same. We are the native Balkan people. Oxford journals made a research about it. Native Balkanian origin is the main origin ranging from 30 to 60% in Serbs, Croats, Bosnians (I1b haplogroup), the rest is r1a, r1b.Serbs (I1b R1a, R1b)
I1b is present in the Balkans since The Last Glacial Maximum 20.000 years ago, r1a is present in Europe since 10.000 years ago,
and E3b1 Albanian origin is in Europe since the Turks invaded Kosovo, or the most recent arrivals are from 3000 BC.
It's all written in Oxford genetic research. You can type in google
Oxford Table 1 Summarized Percent Frequencies of R1b, R1a, I1b* (xM26), E3b1 and J2e.

 
At 5:27 PM, Blogger Sinisa said...

Albanian closest relatives are Turks, Arabs and Somalians which also have highest percentages of e3b1 origins. That is DNA which can not be influenced with anyone's lies and fake stories.

 
At 2:03 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Breaking news Two sculptures has been erected in Honour of two family members of the kalash ,will you people claiming the origens of kalash to be yours try to protect these sculptures before they are stolen and placed in your white museums .one million dollers were paid by German museum in late 70"s
what did Kalash get after helping the allied forces In the afghan war.I was recently in Kalash And greek volunteers have built schools and a kalash museum where my students from 1980 1989 have placed Art Sculptures and History behind Glass for generations to come.Instead of CLAIMS HELP PROTECT KALASH.WITH UN

 
At 5:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The name Alexandre can only be convincingly explained by the Albanian language.
Alexandre = A le ks ander = is born like in dream
This precisely corresponds to the dream his mother made when she got pregnant.

 
At 5:36 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi
I am considered an ethnic Albanian, but what is Albanian, it is a mixture as are various other races/nationalities across the world. However, Albanians have retained characterisitics of their ancestors the Illyriams, so that is why peopel here are saying Kalash are albanians, kalash have illyrian ancestory. Now, if you go to North India you will have people with names like Illyas and iskander. You find these same common names among the Albanians. These are not MUSLIM names; rather they are considered in my opinion Illyrian ones. I am not sayign all Albanians are illyrains-many of them have Turkic, Arab, Slavic DNA, yet there remain traces of Illyrain culture in the Albanian identitiy.
Also, my last name is a title of honor that North Indian Aryan brahmins use to designate themselves. Why the hell would I have sucha surname and why in God's name have I seen Albanians from the mountains who have not been touched by Turks etc. have the same names? They are not Indian. They did not come from India. And they lived in the mountains not wanting to intermingle with people. They are tall, big-boned, dark blond and blue eyes, and as Aryan as you can imagine. My grandma comes from such a tribe.
Second, greeks think they own and know everything. They are full of themselves liek when they made a spat over who created the goat cheese couple years back. they quiblled over it with the EU. You knoww what Greeks are not the authentic people they claim to be just like most Albanians are not authentically from Alexander's people.
And Kalash are no more Pakistani than they are Illyrian. People intermingle and mix. But there are several indications that many North Indians do indeed have Alexandrian roots.
You know, I look at these pictures of Kalash and Afgani pathan peopel and I swear they look like some of our people. Then again, our people are soem of the more mountaneus ones...

Again, Greek people need to stop tryign a make a name for themselves out of nothing. All you guys wanna do is be remembered. Who cares what Kalash are but strong evidence lingguisitcally and even genetically points to the Illyrians.

 
At 5:40 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Also, what is Yugoslavian? are you referring to Albanians from Male e zee or Bulgartians from resen or the turkic tribes that have intermingled with Albanians. I mean, come on, peoples. What was X is now Y, peopel change, but th ekey is to understanding a group's language, it is central to understanding their origins....their culture, forget DNA.

 
At 11:07 PM, Anonymous AlexandertheGreek said...

I am Greek-Macedonian and I have blue eyes and am quite fair. I only speak Greek. I claim descendency from the ancient Macedonians, who were, quite obviously, GREEK - just like the athenians, corinthians, spartans, etc.

Anybody else who things otherwise can get back into the confused closet to Narnia where they belong...

And for God's sake open up a book and READ: The ancient Greeks were in fact, fair-featured....

Regards,
Paul Kiritsis

 
At 11:12 PM, Anonymous AlexandertheGreek said...

Anonymous...

We don't need to be remembered...the Western World remembers us because we formed the basis of Western Civilisation

Do the names Plato, Aristotle, Pythagoras, Ptolemy, Homer, Socrates, Herodotus, Solon ring a bell to you or mean anything to you?

From whence do Medicine, Science, Literature, Drama, Theatre have their origins?

Alexander the Great was the greatest general the world has known but he was simply..ONLY THAT...a General...Hellenic civilization stands well on its own without him...he only spread the culture, language and religion....(note that he was spreading greek culture and religion and not SLAVIC or any other imagined one)


TIME TO OPEN UP A BOOK AND READ!!!!!

 
At 3:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am a Macedonian Greek Lady, and the Kalash Ladies dress very much like us in Kozani, Grevena, Macedonia and the round hat like the Ancient Greeks from Minor Asia. All of them look so very much like us, It is unbelievable. When I first seen them in the internet, It bothered me so much because they look like my family, and was very concern about them constantly. I wanted to get in contact with them right away. When I found out they are the children from the Ancient Greek Army, I know some how deep in my heart this people are my family, and was glad to learn.
I hope many Governments assist this Unique People, and save them.
Kalash Brothers and sisters we love you. Macedonia Is Greek!

 
At 7:09 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

EDUCATION CORRECTION!
Alexander the Great was From a GREEK genea not from Slavic Dah? We are the pure Macedonians and we are Greeks came from the same Grand fathers, and reside in the Ancient Macedonia located in North Greece.We will defend it against the next door thives. Vardarska Banovina (FYOM)has nothing to do with the Ancient Macedonia! ZERO! You are Slavs mixed with Bulgarian,Albanian and Turkish Blood. The FYOM has changed its name several times. For centuries it was a Yugoslavian Stage call it: Vardarska Bavovina, because its setlers arrived 600AD by the River Vardar and name their land Vardarska Banovina. The Slavs know their History but they want to steal Greek land and the Aigean see of the ancient Macedonia Greece..By the way, the Kalash woman dress like the woman from Kozani, Grevena, Kastoria,and Sarakatsani from Makedonia Greece.
FY Of Vardarska stay the heck off my Makedonia!

 
At 12:59 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

They are not descendants of the Alexander, his armies never even stepped foot into that region of Pakistan.

They are most likely direct descendants of the 'Aryan' invaders of India in 1500 BC. Believe it or not, but there were many blue-eyed, blonde haired caucasian populations in Asia in the past. All the way to China.

Look at the Tarim mummies in China, which is a nearby region to Kalash.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarim_mummies

Caucasian mummies, and proven by DNA tests.

As to why this tribe is unique and doesnt look like a typical Pakistani or Indian, they didnt mix with the neighboring populations after the Aryan invasion...However the rest did, and setup a Caste system for it. If you look at a high caste person in Indian society, many of them look Caucasian. However a low caste person is usually very dark skinned and has little caucasian features.

 
At 12:27 AM, Blogger Metalda said...

I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don't know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.

Lucy

http://forextradin-g.net

 
At 10:57 AM, Anonymous flora57 said...

The kalash people are descendents of Alexander the Great.
They were 6000 horse rider which leading by their kingdom Kliti fighting in army of Alexsander the Great.After assassination of Kliti 6000 horse rider resided in India
( valley Hindu -kush today Pakistan).Kalash in albanian language means " kala" in english castle. Their language called " burrushaski" in albanian burrash, in english -man-
The kalash people are tsiam or cam.
The cam people are arvanitas which live in Greece and Albania.
This population is coerce after second world war.
The truth historical.
The mother of Alexander the Great was illyrian no greek.
The macedonians were tribe illyrians.
Macedonians of the day hasn,t connection with macedonians of Alexander the Great. Slavic people came in Ballkan cen. 6-7 D.C

 
At 9:51 PM, Anonymous pulmonary embolism diagnosis said...

I do not want to see Greece fallen under a barbarian rule. Alexander the Great

 
At 11:55 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Greeks have been sooo desperate to lay claim not only to the whole of the Balkans but everywhere and anywhere. The Kalash have no genetic connection with modern greeks; the Greeks are a dark skinned and wooly haired as Herodetus describes them. The Kalash are fair-haired with blue eyes. The Kalash are probably decendants of a caucasian tribe in the Indo-aryan family. There is archeological evidence of Caucasians occupying both Asia and China, as the three closely related European tribes - Illyrians, Celts and Germanic tribes occupy Europe. Unfortunately, the Greeks cannot identify as either Illyric, Celtic or Germanic. These three major tribes are connected by blood, language and culture. History favors the Illyrians as the ancient peoples of the Balkan. Albanians are only one of the numerous Illyrian tribes. Scotland was called Alban, England was called Albion, Italy was called Alba Longa. The Albanoi tribe was one of the larger tribes of the Illyrians, hence the name change from Illyria to Albania. Under the Roman Empire, Illyricum extended from the Balkans, through Switzerland and into Austria. This should tell you something about the family of peoples occupying that part of Europe, which where considered the "Barbarians" to the Greeks. It is curious that the Romans did not call this entire area Greece, given that the Greeks consider Macedonia as Greek. Clearly, Illyrians, Macedonians and Thracians are all the same stock of peoples occupying territories between the Adriatic and the Black Sea. Linguistic and archeological evidence has proven that. It was only during the Dark Ages that the Greeks flooded into outer islands of the balkan. Furthermore, the Historian, Livi, mentions Alexander as not being unable to little command of the Greek language and reverting to his non-greek "barbaric" tongue when giving during battles. What kind of Greek is that? All modern Greeks know that the ancient Barbarian Macedonians where far from Greek. If the Macedonians, Illyrians and Thracians where Greek, they would be called Greek and not Illyrians, Macedonians and Thracians.

 
At 9:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

whether the ancient macedonians were Greeks or a closely related people is a longtime scholarly debate. Surely the macedonians felt they were Greek and their language was closely related to the ancient Greek dialects, but the classical Greeks did not ocnsider them Greek, at least until Phillip forced them to. The similarities in languages cited by many here reflects more their common Indo-European origins than any later affinity. The Kalasha speak a Dardic language which belongd to the Indic group, a distant cousin to Hindi and Bengali. The Indic people, who called themselves Aryans invaded northern India around 1500 BC. As such they can be expected to have been of a different "racial" appearance from the Dravidian Indians who already lived there. Over the millenium the Aryans became absorbed "racially" by the Dravidians even as the original Indian peoples began speaking Indic languages. However, the Kalasha, because of their remote location in high mountains, apparently did not participate in this intermingling as extensively, hence their different appearance, that really has nothing to do with Alexander the Great, whose penetration into that region was nominal at best. Similarly the Nuristanis to the east of the Kalasha (and one tribe of Nuristanis also call themselves Kalasha) retain a more pale look than the peoples who live in more lowland areas nearby.

 
At 3:57 AM, Blogger Nezir said...

The "Macedonians" of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) in fact are nothing more or less than descendants of present Bulgarian, settled in the territory of FYROM in the times of Bulgarian Empire. The "Macedonians" are a nation created by Josip Broz Tito after the WWII. That's a fact! And any attempt to claim that Alexander the Great was "Macedonian" of present FYROM is false.
As for the Illyrians and ancient Greeks, I must admit that a lot of events occured at that time, lots of wars and alliances between these two eldest nations inhabiting the region, and now Greeks tend to claim more of history that in fact belongs to them.
Skender, Iskander, Alexander are all names used by Albanians, descendants of Illyrians, thats a fact. Alexander is used by Albanian catholics, while Iskander or Skender by Albanian muslim. But I never heard a Greek named Alexander now.
And if Alexander the Great was Greek, why did he fought the Greeks? Does anyone has a rational explanation for that? If yes, I would like to hear it...

 
At 1:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

People here should really learn history.... Alexander was Albanian??? HAHAHA won't even bother.. Alexander the Great was Greek, from the greek Macedonia...Love when countries with no history "borrow" from others. Greece had EMPIRES through MILLENIUMS... You will find greek culture all over the world..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWIKDhhTvnU

 
At 2:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If a well educated ex minister who has no profits from his people anymore admits such a thing..then whatever you people(Slav-Macedonians)say makes no difference to me. You have no evidence of equal importance that actually prove your statements and as a result, we are not talking on the same basis here. What you say is what you're taught in school and according to the video, what you're taught is something that your very own government invented so you can have a history of 2000 or 3000 yrs! We are proud of our past because at least it existed and it was huge and we want to preserve it. If there was no Greek civilization there wouldn't even be a European..Europe was in the dark in the middle ages till the Age of Enlightenment came where everybody turned into the ancient greek scriptures and progress started..The Greeks offered a vast amount of knowledge that constitutes the basis of the today's progress..from the 'theoretical' philosophy to the 'practical' medicine etc..Unfortunately what I see is that progress has stoped because nowadays people all they care about is fashion and facebook and it bothers me when those people actually come to form an opinion at the moment they haven't even spent a respectable amount of time to study on a serious basis and they just repeat the words of a grandfather or grandmother.. I do not know about the Kalash tribe and I'm not afraid to admit it but what I do know is that 1)Alexander the Great was Greek and there are many evidence for that, and 2) you have no right to humiliate distort or even destroy verbally such a civilization because of a jealous 'ego'..

 
At 4:45 AM, Anonymous www.natalia.biz said...

Quite effective info, thank you for the post.

 
At 6:27 AM, Blogger Muhammad Kashif Ali said...

Its a good feature, but if you really interested in the Kalasha culture, read blog; kalashapeople.blogspot.com, you will fine books, papers, article etc. on the Kalasha culture and society.

 
At 6:50 PM, Blogger renu_kuri92 said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 6:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

the taliban are actually killing them, they dont really talk about it in public, the taliban takes their food supplies...etc, even Nuristan people once practiced a religion similar to hindu, majority of the mountain people in India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan were always different from the rest and will always remain different in languages ...etc, anyways there was proof once they are related to the Greek, the Greece government is actually giving them aid, but thats stopping when the taliban attacked the Greek workers, but thats all keeping them alive

 
At 3:07 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't think they are anyway related to the Alexander. How?

Well, I myself, am from a place distant near Darjeeling, India. This place harbors people from different ethnicity and cultures. Among them is a group of people known as Khas. History has it, they were European tribes that entered India through Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kashmir, Himachal Pradesh and Nepal. History also mentions, that these tribes were from the west. My theory is that as these tribes entered minority of their population settled along the way on route they migrated. e.g. Afghanistan, North Pakistan, Kashmir, Tibet, Himachal and Nepal. The most striking part is that all the cultural traits, features of the Kalasha matches with these people. Khas people (name taken from the people who were from cau-ca-sus; cau-cos or khas) also believe their ancestors belong to the 13 different tribes and they venerate them in their rituals and prayers. Much of these ancient tribes has intermingled with another tribe Aryan or Iranian and converted to Hinduism and lost their ancestral roots and customs. But some still follow the pagan gods and customs.


Lastly, I too am from the tribe Khas and my people look more like these people (Kalasha people) than our domestic friends.

 
At 1:53 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

kalash are albanians their dogs are the same as illiryan dogs in albania. I am greek but i have studied the kalash people and the albanians and they have the same origin

 

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